Allan Dalton on Crush it

Anthony Lamacchia: Hey, everybody, I am excited to be here today with a real estate legend. Real estate legend, someone that’s been in the business 50 years, my friend Allan Dalton. I invited him to come in here to headquarters. We just had a great meeting with our executive team. We talked about his book. He was flipping pages. The thing that amazes me the most, sir, you’ve got as much energy as I do, and there aren’t many people that are like that.

Allan Dalton: Well, that’s a supreme compliment, because I admire your energy and much more.

Anthony: Well, thank you. We’re going to get into a lot of things. One of the things we’re going to do is talk a little bit about the book. We’re going to talk about some marketing materials and plans. He just showed us a bunch of it, and then we’re even, Allan, we’re going to have a little discussion about how you made a television appearance in the courtroom in a certain place in Missouri. You know that I have felt very strongly that that was an unfair depiction of what happened, an unfair depiction of you, and it infuriated you, but you asked me for six months to really not say much about it. We agreed that we would talk about it a little bit today and get your side of the story.

Allan: I’m very happy to do that, Anthony, and you’ve been a tremendous advocate for the ethics of the industry.

Anthony: Well, thank you. I certainly try as hard as I can. I’m frustrated about the situation that has happened. I’m frustrated about our industry essentially being robbed by these money-hungry lawyers, and that’s why I did what I did and why I do what I do, because there’s a lot of mass confusion out there. Before we get to that, let’s talk about this. You wrote this whole book. Truth be told, folks, I’ve scanned the whole thing, but I’ve actually read every word up until halfway through. Last night, I fell asleep like this, but I’ve been reading it for two weeks, and there’s a ton of tremendous content in here, tremendous ideas. First of all, why? Why?

Allan: Well, first of all, the book is Buyer Agent Be Aware, and the title is very purposeful, because I believe that given the changes that have been imposed upon the industry, that more buyer agents are going to have to be more aware of their value, and they’re going to have to make buyer clients aware of their value. I took four months of research. I did a lot of case studies. This is on Amazon right now. I have top producers like Julie Vanderblue, who you’ve had an immense-

Anthony: Yes. Friend of mine; friend of yours.

Allan: -amount of influence in terms of her career, who did, I think, $150 million herself.

Anthony: Herself, yes.

Allan: Crystal Clarke, who did $250 million herself without a team, and half of their business is on the buying side. Independent of how successful they’ve been on the buying side, that’s history in terms of the changes that are going to require a greater manifestation of value being presented to prospective buyer clients, and so I spent four months putting together every component of buyer value, from using CRM, artificial intelligence, new construction buyers, a buyer presentation, which I hope we’ll get to, the seven As of buyer agent value, the buyer guarantee.

Because for years, agents have been saying, [unintelligible 00:03:07] are the name of the game and not buyers are the name of the game. They’ve talked about my marketing plan versus their buyer plan, so all of that is going to change in several weeks. Medical students work on cadavers before they go to the live ones. We’re going to have to have a lot of practice in role playing before people go out there and try to compel buyers or convince them that the agent is worthy of their negotiated compensation directly to the buyer agent.

Anthony: It’s been negotiated forever, and that’s what drives me nuts is these lawyers try to act like it’s not negotiated. These lawyers try to act like buyers don’t push back on us, sellers don’t push back. It’s crap. You know that, but I’m preaching to the choir. Anyway, tell me more. You wanted to put this together, really, because you’re obviously very timely with this. You wanted to put it together, because you know that the world for a buyer’s agent and the buyer representation has really changed. While it’s in the process of changing, I personally don’t think that a whole lot’s going to change. I personally am convinced commissions, the average commissions– I get so frustrated when they talk about the fact that, well, the average is higher than other places around the world. Yes, well, realtors in the United States do dramatically more than others around the world.

Oh, by the way, there are countries around the world with higher average commissions, but that doesn’t get talked about in the courtroom to the jury. You did this really at this time on purpose. You have 50 years of knowledge, three, four months you dug in hard and came up with this. I’m guessing it’s because you really want agents to do a better job at taking a step back, re-evaluating their explanations, re-evaluating their value, and being able to better explain it. That’s what I’m getting out of this.

Allan: Thank you for that, Anthony. A few things in the book that call attention to the need for agents to do a better job, and I say this respectfully, of reflecting their value has to do with the way they think about their value. For example, in the beginning of the book, we talk about some of the mind shifts that must take place. For example, we still have almost all agents talk about making listing presentations. No one wants a listing presentation. They want a marketing proposal. That’s not semantics. We still have agents saying this, I’ve got to do a better job of keeping in touch with my past clients. Well, if they’re past clients, that means you’re a past agent.

Anthony: You taught me that 10 years ago.

Allan: We’ve been told, treat your business like a business. No, treat your business like a professional practice. A business has customers. A practice has clients. That’s why one of the first things I talk about in the book is the need to create clients for life. In fact, years ago, and I mentioned this in the book, I created something called the Real Estate Financial Planning System. I asked myself this question, Anthony, what percentage of consumers at some time in their life regret not owning enough real estate? Almost everybody. What percentage of realtors have ever encouraged a consumer to put together all their clients to develop a real estate plan? Basically none. That’s the single greatest underserved opportunity that exists.

We’ve got to basically– and that’s why when people meet with a consumer and the consumer says, how’s the market? They don’t end up by saying, oh, and by the way, I’d love you to become one of my clients. Now, why wouldn’t they say that? Because they think the word client is defined by a transaction. During a transaction, somebody’s a client. After the transaction, they’re a past client. What are they before a transaction? They’re a future client. No, you can make them a client from day one, but you have to have a mechanism.

Well, what does that mean? Well, I help my clients do planning. That’s also an element of the book, because if people just wait for the buyer to go to Google or the seller to go to Google, it could be too late. We have to basically convert prospects into clients. People talk about having a sphere of influence, but they don’t talk enough about how to influence your sphere. A sphere is a cylinder shape where everything around the perimeter is equidistant to the middle. You can only have that if everybody’s really a client. Otherwise, your whole career is like this. These are my ones. These are my twosies. These are my threesies. These are my hots. These are my colds. The industry has to go out there and convert the public into clients for life, and it needs programs and content. That’s in the book.

Anthony: You know what, though? The first time I ever heard you say that was at some event I was at. I didn’t know you then. We’ve only known each other fairly well for about the last five years. I remember you saying that, and I said to myself, Jesus, I’ve been making a mistake not only in my own brain, but in my teaching. You know I teach agents all over the place.

Allan: Yes, you’re legendary.

Anthony: Well, I don’t know about that.

Allan: No, you are.

Anthony: Thank you. Long way to go. You caught my ear with that, because if you as the realtor leader, you as the realtor doesn’t see your clients as clients, and only sees once you sell their house as past clients, that in and of itself is problematic, because you’re mentally putting them in a category as past. No, treat them as a client forever. Look at my primary care doctor. He’s been my primary care doctor since I was 17. I’m 43 years old. Yesterday there was an issue. My son had a rash on his side. I sent my doctor a picture. He got right back. He said what to do. I said, doc, please don’t ever retire. I’ve never been his past patient.

Allan: Exactly.

Anthony: I’m his patient, right? There’s really something to that.

Allan: Anthony, people have one doctor, one lawyer, one financial planner, and they’ve got five real estate agents, okay? We have to put an end to this.

Anthony: In their lifetime.

Allan: We’ve got to put an end to this real estate roulette. Unfortunately, most good realtors will spend 30 or 40 years developing a business versus a practice, and then when they retire, they can’t even sell their life’s work, because their whole world was about building a business with customers and past clients versus converting everybody. Even though the book is decidedly about buyer agency, it’s also about creating clients that become both buyer clients and seller clients.

Anthony: Of course, in the future. All right, let me ask you something. Introducing Dalton’s seven As of buyer agent value. Can you run through those and maybe pick one of them to go over?

Allan: Yes, okay. The seven As of buyer agent value was my effort to basically crystallize a constellation of services that are indispensable in terms of service to a buyer client. Okay? Fortunately, they all happen to fall under the letter A, so it’s alliterative. As I said earlier, for years I’ve been talking about my marketing plan, but not their buyer plan, because up until now, up until what’s going to happen, buyers would never have the appetite or the tolerance to have to sit through a presentation. They want to go over their needs, their wants, look at pictures, and start looking at homes. Now, you’re going to be able to say to buyer clients, I’d love to start looking at properties right now, but we can’t until we first agree that we’re going to work together ethically, and so we put together at our company, the seven As of buyer agent value.

Folks, what do you expect from your buyer agent? No matter what they say, it’s not going to be sufficient, because they don’t know all of the depth. I’ve asked a lot of agents this question. Who has more value, the seller agent or the buyer agent? They initially say the seller agent, but then when they think about it, who has to have more market knowledge? The buyer agent. Who has to have more construction knowledge? The buyer agent. Who has to arrange for all of the services? The buyer agent. Who spends more people? Who’s more of an emotional buffer in the transaction? The buyer agent.

First, you have to understand that you get greater value. The second thing is that you’ve got to be able to convey it and the third thing, you’ve got to create immediate trust. The seven As of value, part of the buyer guarantee that’s in this program, they’re agency, access, arrange, apprise and negotiate, answers, administrate the transaction and after the sale value. I’m just going to take the one.

Anthony: Yes, go ahead.

Interviewer: Agency. You might begin by saying this, folks, let me begin with agency. That means that you and I is one. Seller agent represents the seller. I’m speeding this up, by the way. A buyer agent represents the buyer. A dual agent doesn’t represent either, but we’ll work with both. We can talk about that, but that doesn’t apply to what we’re talking about right now. The first A that I’d like you to look at, we have a little hand up for them, is agency. That means you and I will be as one. I’ll be working for you. I won’t be representing the seller, the seller’s agent, the marketplace, or whatever. It’s you.

I want to say something else. You and I will be as one. I want to say something else about how I feel about agency, folks. Today, I’m not going to be asking you why are you moving? What are you looking for? What’s your financial situation? What’s your timetable? Until and unless you first ask me to represent you. Because otherwise, if I’m not representing you and if I were to end up representing another client, that information could be used against you. To me, that would be unethical. Now, time out. That’s how you establish trust.

Everybody agrees you’ve got to establish trust immediately. How do you do it? Have you thought about it? Can you just say, by the way, you can trust me. No, you really can’t. No, you have to earn trust. They don’t understand that this is what agency means, that this is to the degree that you represent them. One other thing on agency, I’m going back to the buyer client now. The other thing is that the seller agent will be representing, obviously, by definition, the seller. Their job is to increase the value of the home. As a buyer agent, as a salesperson, we’re the only salespeople who have an ethical responsibility to actually sell homes for less.

The one of the ways I’ll do that is that the seller agent will use ChatGPT and other language models to extol the virtues of the home to put together wonderful prose and narratives. I use for my buyer clients, ChatGPT to find out reasons not to buy a home, to criticize the home, and to actually criticize the town. Now, obviously, no home is perfect. No town is perfect. We can’t use that against ourselves, but that just gives you a sense of how I’ll be representing you. I’ll be representing you as if I’ll be buying this home for myself. Now, let’s get to the next day. That’s the first day.

Anthony: I like that. When I was reading through this, I noticed that you broke it down. You use a lot of big words. You’re smarter than me, but you also make it simple. That’s been the premise of my whole– It’s the number one thing everybody says to me. That’s the number one thing people say to me about my videos, you take complicated topics and you explain them in a simple way. That’s a good tip for the realtors watching or those out there watching that want to create a following, but I like it. I wholeheartedly endorse the book without a doubt. Go ahead. You got something else?

Interviewer: One other thing on the book before we get to maybe the very juicy subject.

Anthony: [chuckles] I got some other questions before that. We need to talk about your career.

Interviewer: Okay, good. Whatever.

Anthony: The things you’ve done.

Interviewer: One other thing I do. The book is 320-something pages and 319 are about buyer agent value. There’s a few pages that have to do with the seller. I’m going to say something as a cautionary note to the entire industry, because I know you’re such an illustrious trainer and coach and legend in the industry that you have a lot of influence, and so this is a perfect platform to make a macro observation. Here’s the macro observation. We’ve got to stop using the expression, the listing agent. I’ll tell you why. See, a defense attorney clearly represents the defendant. A plaintiff, your favorite, a plaintiff attorney represents the plaintiff.

Anthony: Catch mark.

Interviewer: A buyer agent represents the buyer. Who does the listing agent represent? No one. They represent the listing based on the nomenclature. Now, what’s going to happen, my prediction is that when people become more aware that fees are more in the spotlight you’re going to have more buyers determined to go directly to the listing agent on a score that’s open houses and the like. Now, let me say this, who do you think the buyer agent think has more knowledge about the property, the listing agent or the buyer agent? The listing agent.

They’re going to go right to the listing agent, because the term listing agent sounds so welcoming. It doesn’t sound oppositional. It doesn’t sound adversarial. As a buyer, I would never have the nerve to contact the seller agent, which is what everybody should be calling every single listing agent in the world, but boy, the listing agent, that’s something I don’t think the industry has even thought about.

Anthony: Wait. Your point is when you’re representing a buyer or you’re talking to a buyer in a buyer presentation, make it clear to them that it’s the seller’s representative, the seller’s agent.

Interviewer: It’s the seller’s agent, because you want to build the [unintelligible 00:15:58]

Anthony: Seller’s agent, not the listing agent. I like that.

Interviewer: Here’s the thing, because what will happen is this, more buyers will go directly to the listing agent, that dreaded term. That’s why there’s listing presentations. They’ll go directly to the listing agent. The seller will discover that and come to this conclusion, well, if the buyer doesn’t need an agent representing them, why do I? Everything falls apart. All value becomes eroded, because there’s a lack of symmetrical value. If you don’t have a strong plaintiff’s attorney, you don’t need a strong defendant’s attorney. We have asymmetrical value here going on. We have a buyer agent. That’s clear and unmistakable and then juxtapose with a listing agent. Let’s stop using terminology like that. That’s just a little bit of bonus in the book amongst thousands of other ideas.

Anthony: That sounds inviting to the buyer.

Interviewer: Exactly.

Anthony: I get it. Hey, I want to also mention this book has been on my shelf down the hall for– When did you write this? At least 10 years ago?

Interviewer: At least. I forget.

Anthony: Here’s another one, creating real estate connections that he’s had for a long time. I see some friends on here, and some aren’t friends. They’re just people I’ve admired, but Ray Massa, Valerie Fitzgerald. I don’t know who sold more luxury than her years ago. Maybe even still now, I don’t know. Jack Cotton, Julie Vanderblue, Russell Shaw. I’ll tell you a story. If Russell sees this, it’d be great.

Interviewer: He’s the best.

Anthony: When I started television advertising years and years ago, I learned it from a dear friend in Tucson, Arizona named Jeff Willems. Jeff, I have to give him credit, he immediately said, hey, I’ve learned a lot of this from Russell Shaw up in Phoenix. I would watch Russell’s website. I’d listen to his radio ads. Marketing genius. Steve Chin, I don’t know him. Here’s another one that you wrote, but okay, let’s talk about your career for a few minutes here. You’ve been in the business 50 years.

Interviewer: Actually 47.

Anthony: Okay, 47.

Interviewer: I want to make you feel even younger. I want you to feel even younger.

Anthony: [laughs] You had your basketball days before that, drafted by the Celtics, but didn’t end up playing for the Celtics. You played semi-pro-

Interviewer: Played in Europe, played in Greece. Yes.

Anthony: -or pro overseas. Then you ended up in the real estate business. You’ve been the CEO of Realtor.com. You were CEO of Real Living. You were in multiple executive positions at multiple companies. You also are very proud about your early career with Joe Murphy. Why don’t you spend a few minutes and talk about some of this stuff, because the audience should be aware?

Interviewer: I started in Boston in Medfield, Mass as an agent. Very shortly thereafter I was recruited to move to New Jersey. I met Joe Murphy at a conference. He was a basketball star in college himself. He was a major builder. We had a few offices in New Jersey. Together we built a company of 60 offices over the next 20 years and then I created for Better Homes and Gardens, all their national marketing systems. Then we sold the company. I became EVP of NIT. When I met the GOAT, Gino Blafari, because Gino was also an EVP of NIT. He had sold his company. Then I was EVP of two companies that were put together in Boston called Honeyman and DeWolf.

Anthony: Yes. Right. I grew up, all I saw was Honeyman and DeWolf signs and then they got swallowed up by Coldwell merged together. You were part of that.

Interviewer: Then I went to Realtor.com and became first the president, then the CEO of Realtor.com. Then I left –

Anthony: That had to be a cool job.

Interviewer: It was a great job. What was exciting about it is that it required a very complex approach to deal with all of the resistance. Because back then a lot of the big brokers hated it, because it evened the playing field. A lot of the top producers hated it, because they felt they were subsidizing the non-producers who were getting free advertising. Some of the MLSs hated it, because we took fees from 850 MLS, so it subsumed their importance to a degree although MLSs are critical, because of that- and then the National Association of Realtors, which they govern the site, that was a complicated relationship. Although I believe without any eye there wouldn’t be an industry. I love them.

The point is this. There was a lot of opposition to that. To me that was very stimulating. It was stimulating, because I am competitive. It was like every day going into battle. It was going into battle defending the value of the site in the same way that I defend the value of buyer agents in Buyer Agent Be Aware. I am very competitive. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have been drafted in the NBA. That was the most exciting time of my life, because I’d actually go places and I’d be heckled and I’d be booed. I love that. For some reason, there must be something wrong with me, I love that. It was so invigorating. I love it.

Anthony: That’s what motivated you to work to improve the brand of Realtor.com. Now, when you were dealing with controversy in those days, and it wasn’t just that one example, you hit it head on and you explained and articulated the value that Realtor.com was bringing, how it brought more [unintelligible 00:21:09]

Allan: Well, it’s the same thing that people should always look at, so-called objections. It’s an opportunity to express greater value, because no one would be doing what they were doing if they didn’t have belief in it. If they didn’t see their value. It’s just being able to express the value. For example, if somebody says to an agent, well, how are you different? I suggest, folks, rather than focus on, oh, I’m different. I’d rather focus how we have to showcase what’s different about your home? I don’t compete against other homes here in Boston, but your home competes against other homes. I actually cooperate with all the other realtors, but your home doesn’t cooperate or compete.

The way that I’m different is how we’re going to market your home. Anything that’s ever brought up, for example, we still have agents using the word comps. That’s like saying, let’s take a look at some comparable children. What should you say instead? Folks, let’s take a look at properties which buyers will be evaluating at the same time they’re evaluating your home. I always looked at what’s the best way to elevate the value and say things that are the most resonant and not just default to the industry’s vocabulary, because the industry undermines itself. It goes through saying homes will sell because of price. Well, if homes will sell because of price, that’s the only reason they do sell.

No homes will sell because of ineffective marketing, because price is part of marketing. That’s why there’s four Ps. I’ve always been devoted to looking at where’s the greatest value and how to express it.

Anthony: Well, I like that. You see his passion. 47 years in the business he’s not shy about explaining this stuff. Let’s jump to the most recent topic that made you somewhat infamous. I know I’m not the only one out there that feels what happened is ridiculous and unfair. Why don’t you give your version? Obviously there were cases in Western Missouri, they show a snippet of a training video. Go ahead. Do you want to talk about it?

Allan: Well, now that I only represent myself and I’m no longer with the brand, I feel I have the freedom in this country. Freedom of speech to give my reaction. I would say this, this is my take on what has taken place. First of all, I think the industry, and maybe more than you do, Anthony, I think the industry was very vulnerable, but it wasn’t culpable. It wasn’t guilty. In all my years, I never attended any situation with you or anyone else where anyone talked about what fee should be. If you don’t charge this, if you don’t pay this, I never heard that.

Anthony: Never.

Allan: I never heard that in many, many decades. In fact, personally I was in the newspapers quoted how all fees are negotiable on that tape that was shown that I think was inadmissible in court. I say in the same tape, they didn’t show it that all fees are negotiable. That’s very, very important, because no one should ever try to exploit a consumer or a human being by a lack of their knowledge. No money, no compensation on earth is worth ever finessing somebody, manipulating somebody. Everything should be forthright. I never heard anything along the lines of some of the accusations.

Where we were vulnerable is that when they showed in the suit, and I think the plaintiffs did a great job in making their case. When they showed–

Anthony: The plaintiff’s lawyers.

Allan: The plaintiff’s attorney.

Anthony: Not the fake plaintiff. There was no real plaintiffs who were harmed. That was a bunch of crap.

Allan: You become a lawyer here.

Anthony: You know it’s true.

Allan: That’s a great distinction, Anthony. I think the plaintiff’s attorney did a masterful job of making their case, because they showed other precedents around the world, even though we’ve got a high standard of living so there’s going to be congruency around that.

Anthony: Of course.

Allan: They showed that in one state, the overwhelming percentage of people miraculously all paid about the same fee, even if a home was on the market for 1 day, 10 years, $100,000 home or $10 million. There was vulnerability. The other vulnerability is this, home ownership is down. A lot that’s going on in the world, people think there’s the oppress and the oppressor. This also comes under the purview of justice and social justice. How do you get home ownership? The rates higher? Minority home ownership is lower than 50%. White ownership is 74%.

Putting aside whatever the plaintiff’s motives were, whatever degree of mercenary motivation they had, the setting was, was perfect to redress what’s happening in the world sociologically. The industry was very vulnerable, but it wasn’t culpable. There was no misbehavior that I’ve ever seen. I’ve never been in a room where people talked about fees. That’s what’s unfortunate. Then the other thing is this, I don’t think the industry was wrong or guilty, because I just also don’t think the lawyers got together and colluded that their contingency fees are usually between 30 and 40%. I don’t think they all get back at the convention in a smoke-filled room and said, what should we all be charging?

Things become the normal. I don’t think waiters and waitresses and restaurateurs get together at like Capital Grill and Applebee’s and said, what are we going to charge this year? Things become precedent.

Anthony: You know what’s funny?

Allan: They become president. Here’s what’s good about it. What’s good is that only the top real estate professionals will continue to flourish. I think they’ll be even more successful, because the greater the scrutiny is of value, the top producers will be more separate from a lot of the people who should not be in the industry. I don’t say this unkindly. I think it’s going to be great that there’s going to be a greater need to validate value. That’s what this book’s about.

Anthony: Well, there’s no doubt about that. It obviously puts focus on these kinds of things. There’s a couple things I want to mention, because I just can’t help, but mouth off about it a little bit. You just pointed out percentages and all that. Well, I don’t know if you saw the debate I had with Mr. Catch Mark, but of the things I pointed out to him is right on the American Bar Association website, it says that trial lawyers normally charge 33% to 40%. They have it on their site. That’s nowhere to be found on an ARs website. Nowhere to be found on Keller Williams, Berkshire Hathaway, Lamacchia Realty, any of these people or any of the ones that were the poor defendant’s. We obviously weren’t. I thought that was absurd. I don’t know if you want to talk about the specifics or not.

Allan: Absolutely.

Anthony: They show a video of you telling a story and they demonize you. It infuriated me, because I know you. I’ve been around you 100 times. I’ve never heard you talk about commissions or tell how much people should charge or competitors should charge. It pissed me off. Well, so do you want to talk about it a little?

Allan: Well, first of all, that was not a fake video. What they showed is exactly what I said.

Anthony: I understand.

Allan: There was no foul play. I understand it was inadmissible, but like so much it was–

Anthony: The jurors couldn’t unsee it.

Allan: No, it was out of context, in my opinion, for this reason. First of all, if you go back and look at it, I was quoting an agent from 30 years ago who came to me and said, actually, she said a builder, but I just said a home seller, wanted her to throw in $10,000 of her commission on a home that had already sold. They already had an agreement or conversation. She was told she had to throw that in at the closing. That to me is a breach of contract that has nothing to do– No fee was mentioned. I also said to after I quoted her and I bleeped out her very strong language, because it was set for entertainment purposes.

Anthony: Of course.

Allan: They were very clever. They knew that this was sensational and prejudicial and had nothing to do with the matter of the whole basis and the premise of the suit. You got to give them credit for reading the jury, knowing how this may speak to the tone and the attitude which is, I’m a consumerist. I’m the opposite of what– That was as a joke quoting somebody. I’ve never seen anybody before ever be slighted, because they quoted somebody else. Every night in the news, in the Wall Street, they’re bleeping, bleeping. That’s what I did.

Anthony: I know.

Allan: It became a focal point. I never felt bad for myself. I feel bad for the hardworking realtors who are underappreciated. Here’s what people don’t realize. Look at Zillow, look at Realtor.com. Our CEO of [unintelligible 00:29:18] we’ve covered. Those sites have been subsidized by hundreds of millions of dollars of hard earned income by realtors. Somebody could be having breakfast in Brussels and see a property in Boston in its full glory in a matter of seconds. How did that miracle come? Agents made that happen. Agents have paid for that. Agents have paid for the ninth wonder of the world. Nothing is more seamless and professional and efficient than real estate transactions.

Agents shouldn’t just be viewed as their compensation parenthetically, just during a transaction, they’re going to training, coaching. They’re investing in their careers. They’re giving up their weekends, they’re developing their skills. If a surgeon comes in and he does a surgical procedure and he gets $50,000 in an hour, he’s not worth $50,000 an hour, because he or she’s getting compensated for years and years of developing skills. That’s what has to be better understood. That’s what I feel bad about, is that hardworking professionals were being challenged and they should be honored.

Anthony: You know what I think, despite all the bullshit media, despite the narrative that Catch Mark was able to paint in the court, and like you said, that was his job to do. Despite all that, do you know that we didn’t see one even bump, one blip on the radar of less buyers clicking on contact realtor? Nothing changed. October, November, December, then the settlement comes out in March, the settlement comes out. Deborah came in, the worst reporter of all newspapers in the United States. Put that on the front page of the Times. I don’t care. She comes out with all lies saying, oh, now the commission’s gone. What? The National Association’s never told us what to charge.

The point I’m getting at is they come out with that. Every other media or organization picks it up. You know what? People still want realtors. As much as some realtors may have been feeling down about the industry or frustrated folks, think about it. The consumer still wants us all. It hasn’t changed. It really hasn’t even been a bump in the road with that.

Allan: Exactly. I’ll say this, Anthony, talk about something being diabolically distorted. I actually had people reading me things that said, Allan Dalton bleeped, that I was bleeped out. I’m the one who was doing the bleeping. People came out, I heard you were bleeped out. I was the one– That was so benign that I actually showed my young grandkids the video. They loved it. They laughed.

Anthony: They thought it was fun. Yeah.

Allan: That’s how being– It’s like a joke. It’s like a joke. Hey, look, it’s-

Anthony: It’s over.

Allan: It got my blood pressure going. Maybe that’s good.

Anthony: It’s over. We move on. Let me ask this. What’s going on now? Obviously, you’re working with a handful of companies. I think you might be doing some work with us officially here soon. We just talked about that. What’s in the future?

Allan: What’s in the future? First of all, my days of trying to fly all over the country are over.

Anthony: [laughs] He drove here.

Allan: Yes. I’m working with some firms around Metropolitan New York, some of the greatest, the great Emmett Laffey, Bob Molta,-

Anthony: Julie.

Allan: -Julie and the Poconos, Kim and Maxwell Stevens, working with them, helping them to better define their value package and value doing community videos, coaching, consulting. It’s good, because it keeps my mind going and it helps me leverage my experiential knowledge. I feel blessed that I have that opportunity.

Anthony: Listen I feel blessed that you’re here today. I thank you for coming out. Thank you for doing this interview. Do you have anything else you want to add or are you good?

Allan: No, just, I’ll say this. You’re a great leader in the industry. No one came to the forefront in defense of the industry’s ethics to the degree that you did.

Anthony: Thank you.

Allan: No one’s even close. A lot of people hid. A lot of people were overwhelmed. A lot of people they were so intimidated by these excellent attorneys that they wouldn’t put up a fight in the public. The fact that you did, the industry should have a statue of you outside of the National Association of Realtors. You should be very proud of yourself, because it shows who you are as a person. I know that’s how you are as a family person. I also see your family at the Celtics games and all the Facebook, and that’s why you’re building an empire in six states, all of your offices, all of your regional sales and marketing centers. It was really exciting to be here at the epicenter of all of this.

Anthony: Thank you. Look, my work’s still not done. There’s been some people that have said, oh, if you were a defendant, you wouldn’t do that. I have news for you folks. If I was a defendant, take what I’ve done on video and multiply it by 10, because I would’ve been an attack dog on them every single day just like Catch Mark was on our industry. He knew exactly what he was doing. He was smart to do it. He controlled the narrative.

Allan: There’s no doubt that they had to respect you, because anybody that’s as evolved as these attorneys and professional, they respect adversaries.

Anthony: He said that. Actually–

Allan: How could he not?

Anthony: At first I was annoyed, but then I said, you know what? I think I believe him, because he’s good at what he does. I’m good at what I do. There is a little bit of mutual respect despite the frustration I have towards him. I’m sure despite some of the frustration he has towards me. When you have someone like that as an adversary, the only way you can deal with them is to match them with the same amount or overwhelming pressure. I wasn’t the defendant. A lot of the stuff I’ve done hasn’t ended up in national news. It’s been–

Allan: No, but you were defending the ethics of the industry.

Anthony: Yes, because we were getting criticized-

Allan: You were the defendant.

Anthony: -and humiliated in ways that weren’t accurate. I will say one of the big things I think that I had an impact on is I did notice he toned it down after the debate. I’m pretty convinced of that. Some of the language got a little bit better and I appreciate that. Anyway, thank you, sir.

Allan: Thank you. Pleasure.

Anthony: Appreciate your kind words. Appreciate you having here. Thank you.

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